0086: AI, Synthetic Voices and Anne Ganguzza

Raw transcript:

have a seat this is going to be an
emotional podcast
or two
um
how do you feel
when you hear
the words
artificial intelligence
or synthetic media synthetic voices deep
fake a.i
how do you feel inside as a performer do
you feel threatened do you feel
uh confused unknowing we’re gonna talk
in just a moment with one of my dearest
friends in the industry and gen guzza of
vo boss and vo peeps
about this very subject on this episode
of the vo heroes podcast
[Music]
so ann ganguzza
why in the world would you think
i would not agree with something that
you have to say because you said i i
know thank you but i because you said i
forget how you phrased it but you said
the uh
the warnings for performance which i’m
like i’m totally all about that i i get
that um but i wasn’t sure so you know
i’m treading lightly because i’ve taken
some bold moves
so we’re talking about
here’s what happened i did a i did a a a
podcast episode wait are you recording
right now can i block i’m
i am recording right now and i’m leaving
that in
okay
listen okay so i did a podcast episode
on the difference
between the term artificial intelligence
and the term synthetic media or
synthetic voices or synthetic faces got
it
and
i realized that there would be people
who would immediately push back and say
you have no idea what you’re talking
about
you don’t know the threat you’re like
doing what you do and i’m struggling or
something
and that’s happened
and i think i know you and well enough
having worked with you many many times
in the past and you know me well enough
to know that neither one of us doesn’t
know what we’re talking about when it
comes to artificial intelligence sure uh
both of us have worked in technology in
the past both of us have worked uh with
performance in the past i mean the our
paths have crossed this notion
of a machine-created voice yeah or face
in the last 10 years many many times
and then the other day we were in a
session
and i said oh anne ganguzza she talks
about this all the time and i’ve been
meaning to ask her to come on the
podcast and talk about her thoughts on
uh the supposed threat or the
actual threat or
the words
the concepts just as at a 30 000 foot
view and then someday in the future
we’ll talk about specific things
but um you said to me
i don’t think you’re gonna agree with
what i have to say
and i’m like
why would that be so tell me
well okay so you know it’s it’s been a a
process right i mean you and i i i think
we’ve always been lovers of technology
and i you know having worked in it for
well over 20 years i always feel like
i’ve been on the
the the bleeding edge of it and i am
very much um excited by it all the time
and i like to see
the good that can come out of evolving
technology how it can help humankind and
i tend not to think of anything else
that might be the darker side of it
although
not that i don’t think about it it’s
just that i don’t choose to dwell on
that because i know as being being
educated and
knowing as much as i possibly can about
it i can then evolve along with it as
well as you know no matter what i’m
doing at the time i mean if i’m doing
voiceover if i’m working technology
whatever it is i want to evolve along
with it and not necessarily push back
and say no to it because
i’m not gonna stop it i you know i wish
i had that power but
actually i wish i had that power not to
stop the technology but i just wish i
had that power um but i’m not gonna stop
it and
you know david you’re probably not going
to stop it either so
uh i think it’s imperative that you know
knowledge is power that we educate
ourselves and understand um what the
technology is and how we can work with
it in order to benefit ourselves and i
think it’s just something that if we
keep our eyes on the technology we can
get in front of it yeah i think that um
oftentimes people will look at the
result of using a piece of technology
a negative result i mean a great example
is uh i don’t know about you but we made
the arrangements to do this session
today
with a piece of technology that i adore
which is email
email can be used for very evil purposes
sure spam and and fishing and lord knows
what’s going to be invented in the
future dropping scripts and so on but
the technology itself is not responsible
for that it’s how people use the
technology
and then
there are there are concepts around
synthetic voices
that i would think
some
uh voice talent would welcome
you know like they’re going to do that’s
that’s going to be used for like the
crappy jobs that i don’t want anyway
or who knows
but as you talk to
your clients
and your students and
your production partners
what has been what you’ve been hearing
them say and you’re concerned about when
it comes to synthetic media what are
they saying and what are their
misconceptions
well i think you know the first and
foremost is those things that always
seem to like you know hit the media when
there’s talk about deep fakes um and and
there’s examples of deep fakes and then
there’s you know the case of you know
for example my voice got stolen you know
bev standing with the tick tock case and
you know
the thing about it is is that
in in a lot of ways
um at least having those issues you know
brought to light are good because they
help to evolve and develop standards
guidelines and laws and so you know what
was you know the really good thing that
came out of the tick tock case is that
it was settled um and that was a
precedent setting case for somebody’s
voice being used you know without their
permission um and and i think that that
was just kind of a a really wonderful
thing that kind of set a precedent that
opened up our eyes so that we can then
begin to
talk about and have a discussion about
standards and guidelines and policies
and i think that we this is our time to
have a voice it is the very wild west
like people say the wild west of the
beginning of this technology getting out
there well it’s really not but you know
what i mean now that it seems to be a
threat but now is the time when we need
to speak up and we need to you know have
an active voice in in how our voices are
being used um making sure that they’re
used ethically and that we get uh
compensated fairly for them yeah
one of the things that really
disheartens me is
when
products that use artificial
intelligence are painted with the broad
brush
of
the clear
uh uh emotional threat of synthetic
voices
um
artificial intelligence is used in so
many products in so many things
and used in ways that often we don’t
even see but we benefit from
and one of those uh products is positron
i go into
uh audiobook narration facebook groups
and
it kind of reminds me of when acx first
came out because i think maybe a month
or two after everybody started hearing
about acx back in in 2011
i was on a panel
at sag-aftra with some very established
uh audiobook narrators who had already
made the decision that acx was evil that
it was a race to the bottom yeah that it
was awful that it how dare they because
it was different it was revenue share as
opposed to flat rate
and that just didn’t fit in their
zeitgeist in their world and i see that
happening today
when people mention positron they
immediately think of the um
of the artificial intelligence that’s
used with positron
and i happen to be a little bit closer
to this issue than most people because i
was on the phone call
with our reps from sag-aftra and
the ceo of positron and their attorney
when they in real time altered their
terms of service
to assure the people using positron they
weren’t going to be using the uploaded
audio to create synthetic voices they
were only using artificial intelligence
to make it better comparing the
manuscript with the voice that’s it
but that’s not going to change the minds
of people
who are
influencers they’re big names in the
world of narration and so when i see an
anne ganguzza making eminent sense
about this sort of thing i just need to
give you a little bit of a bigger
platform and voice and let my followers
and and people know what you’re thinking
and so i am relieved
right now because i thought you were
gonna say
something really like unexpected and
outrageous about this and in fact you
have restored once again my
my my my worshipness of you and your
brain and how it works and
so
when somebody um
[Music]
is having a conversation with you about
this and maybe they don’t know how smart
you are maybe they don’t know how well
informed you are on this
and
they immediately say oh artificial
intelligence bad
synthetic no this is awful this is this
is going to kill us i’m going to be out
of a job in five years what do you say
oh goodness um well
so
you know
number one it’s that you know education
uh knowledge is power that is number one
i i literally spent a year researching
and interviewing
people you know ceos of ai companies and
and people who are creating synthetic
voices so
you know number one because i’m a
technology buff and i kind of just am
super interested in it but also because
it appeared you know it appeared um from
everywhere that you you read that it was
an impending threat and especially a
threat to our industry and you know for
me i you know been in technology enough
to know that there’s you know it’s just
this is the way technology has evolved
over the years i mean it happened with
the music industry right when things
went from you know vinyl to digital and
then you know things evolve and so again
i knew when that was happening that i
wanted to find out as much as i possibly
could and you know to date i have
literally over 32 episodes that i’ve
produced with different companies with
people all within the ai industry um
talking asking the questions and asking
the tough question asking the questions
you know well how how can i ensure that
my voice won’t be stolen or how can i be
how can i ensure that it won’t be used
for you know speaking a copy that i
would never speak and and you know
eroding my brand in some way and so
by doing that and by asking the
questions and actually by you know
taking these companies up on their
offers to you know to check out their
websites check out their voices play
around with it i guarantee you all these
ai companies will let you have a free
account so that you can play around with
things to learn you know it wasn’t so
much that i was like oh and i’m i’m
afraid you know that they’re gonna take
my voice i mean and i will say that you
know just like any
other contract or any other thing that i
would do in my voiceover business i make
sure that there are eyes on the
contracts you know making sure that my
voice is protected understanding what
things i need to speculate in that
contract to make sure that my voice is
protected and not used for any other
reason than it’s supposed to be and so
through that process um and looking over
contracts and having a lawyer look over
contracts you know i’ve come to
have my own set of okay these are the
guidelines these are what i will accept
these are what i won’t um and i feel
safe proceeding um in using the
technology and then learning more about
the technology so when people come to me
and say it’s gonna take my it’s going to
take my job away well i say it’s it’s
it’s going to actually add to your
toolbox and that’s such a hard concept
for people to understand because all
they see is like no you know it’s it’s
going to take jobs away well if we all
evolve with the technology and move with
the technology we all are on a level
playing field and so we all have the
opportunities to add to our toolboxes
and add you know and and you know voices
for good um not necessarily if you want
to keep your
your voice um you know have a younger
version of your voice maybe donate your
voice to somebody who you know needs a
voice that sort of a thing there’s all
sorts of wonderful things you can do
um with it and so i i i encourage my my
students and people who ask me to really
just educate and i’m very thankful and
grateful that i can point to you know my
vo boss podcast the episodes that are
there and i continue to do episodes on
ai i mean it turned it was supposed to
just be a small series but it ended up
that the more i spoke to these people
the more they wanted to reach out to me
because again they want to educate us
and just as you know the ai industry
um you know wants to to educate people
about you know the you know don’t be
scared this is what’s happening this is
how we can we can use the technology for
good they need to be educated about our
industry they don’t know how usage is
you know how we how we make contracts
how we have usage and so
they don’t know as much about our
industry as we don’t know about theirs
and so i think by working together um
that really can again help us to move
forward um and evolve with the
technology instead of you know pushing
back and and being left behind i mean i
said evolve or die
evolve or die all right listen i want to
put a pin in this right now because this
is clearly a bigger
uh a bigger subject than
one episode and i’d like to have you
come back in next week’s episode or in
the next episode in the series
and and discuss a little bit deeper
this notion of
the technology as it exists today and
the technology as it may exist in the
future and ganguzza uh vo box are you
still doing vo peeps i think you are yes
yeah okay and and uh looking gorgeous as
normal with her huge tim tippets booth
in the background
and yeah baby yeah
i i want you to smash the like button if
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uh we have a channel you can subscribe
to i’m david h lawrence 17th i thank you
so much for watching and for listening
to this episode of the vo heroes podcast
[Music]

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